Christians in Public Schools
>> Tuesday, October 6, 2009
Well, a comment on Josh's last post has gotten my brain churning out things to discuss. I encourage anyone to go read it, but if you refuse, here's a summary of the exchange:
Josh made a comment about taking Christ with us into the secular world instead of creating places specifically for Christians, and included schools as an example. The commenter responded with this:
I'm with you, but I have a bit of a different take on "Christian Schools," especially since I teach at one. I believe that Christians need to stop "taking Christ" into the officially agnostic government (i.e., public) schools. Christ is already there, of course, but most Christian teenagers are not prepared to properly discern and stand firm in the face of the onslaught they will face there.As a teacher, I'm not sure how to take this. I don't think it was meant as an insult to my profession or my workplace. I'm pretty sure it has more to do with government policies higher up the ladder, but it stings nonetheless. Basically, I just have a bunch of questions in response to this. I'd like to write a ton, but I don't have time at the moment and I'd really like to see his answers before I elaborate on my own opinions. I hope this generates a deep and thoughtful conversation.
- The idea that teenagers aren't mature enough to properly discern and stand firm is a fairly modern concept. In some cultures, teenagers are considered adults even today. Does it have anything to do with their age or have we failed to prepare them? Or do we just not trust in our ability to prepare them?
- Can't we be too sheltering? Isn't the tendency for Christian teens/young adults to "go wild" when they first leave home (for college, perhaps) a direct result of the sheltered lifestyle?
- There is, of course, the age-old question: Is one really good/strong/pure/whatever if he has been sheltered from the temptation in question?
- Are we so fearful of those unsaved children (and teachers) that we don't trust God to watch over our own while they're outside of our comfort zones?
- If we took all of the Christian kids out of public schools, how would we reach the unsaved children who might otherwise have no link to the Christian world?
- No public school I've taught in has been officially agnostic. Rather, the whole topic usually gets the silent treatment because so many teachers fear losing their jobs if they discuss it. Perhaps that's a policy I've just never come across before. Was that just a personal observation or is it really "official"?
- Should all Christian educators move to Christian schools so we aren't "stuck" in "officially" agnostic programs?
- I've never seen a free Christian school. How do Christian schools benefit students at or below the poverty line? Some of my kids have to skip meals. I can't imagine them paying to go to a private school.
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13 comments (Click Here to Post One of Your Own!):
Josh, I don't have much time, but I had to respond. I agree with all the questions you posed. In order for young children and teens to grow as people and as Christians they should not be sheltered. I understand that parents are responsible for the spiritual welfare of their children, but this also includes telling others. Public schools may not be deemed a proper platform to preach and teach Jesus, but, as Christians, students and teachers should strive to live in a Godly manner that represents Christ living through us so that even non-Christians know that we are "a peculiar people." My prayer each morning during our moment of silence is that I will be an example to my students so that they will know, even without my advertising it, that I am a Christian. I look forward to reading other comments.
I'm the "commenter," so here's my reply. It's a bit long, but I thought you should hear me out. I've posted your questions in the comment so that people can easily see what I'm responding to.
1. The idea that teenagers aren't mature enough to properly discern and stand firm is a fairly modern concept. In some cultures, teenagers are considered adults even today. Does it have anything to do with their age or have we failed to prepare them? Or do we just not trust in our ability to prepare them?
I agree with you that immature teenagers is a modern concept. In fact, if you peruse my blog, you will see that I argue just this point, especially with respect to age of marriage. The short answer is, we have failed to prepare them. But implicit in preparation is a context in which to prepare them. I would argue that public schools increase the tendency toward prolonged adolescence and irresponsibility. Movies like “Failure to Launch” did not strike a nerve for no reason.
2. Can't we be too sheltering? Isn't the tendency for Christian teens/young adults to "go wild" when they first leave home (for college, perhaps) a direct result of the sheltered lifestyle?
I think many Christian teens go wild not so much because they’ve been sheltered, but because they been told (and had embodied for them) that Christianity = obeying a bunch or rules. Families and churches do not present teens with a compelling, transcendent, winsome vision of life in God’s kingdom. Turning them loose in public schools only makes moralistic Christianity look even worse. The notion that we the teenage years are a season in which we should expect rebellion is also a modern notion, and not biblical. Public schools foster, implicitly and explicitly, rebellion against authority, and portray parents and their beliefs as archaic.
3.There is, of course, the age-old question: Is one really good/strong/pure/whatever if he has been sheltered from the temptation in question?
One could answer this by appealing to ancient Israel. God told them to get rid of the idols. Couldn’t they have obeyed him and “handled” the idols around them? I suppose, but he wanted them to be gone. We have this notion that unless kids are allowed to kind of “try out” the world they will not know how to stand up to it. I disagree. Real life happens in other contexts besides public schools, and kids can be very well equipped for all life temptations away from that context. Plus, there are certain temptations I want to keep them away from, no matter what school they’re at. This is simply wise parenting.
4. Are we so fearful of those unsaved children (and teachers) that we don't trust God to watch over our own while they're outside of our comfort zones?
This has nothing to do with fear, and the problem goes much deeper than “peer pressure” and unsaved teachers. The real problem is that public schools, in every way, take the view that Christ has nothing to do with knowledge or anything that’s important. He may come up in a history class as a kind of “religious figure,” but the official curriculum excludes any notion of teaching actual spiritual knowledge based on the lordship of Christ over all things. But students don’t realize this is happening. It’s not like they can go home to their parents and “report” the godlessness they were imbibing at school. It’s kind of like the nightly newscast. It’s not spewing out some explicitly anti-Christian garbage, but implicit (and explicit) in everything it broadcasts is the idea that God has no part of running and being involved in his universe. He is officially excluded. This is all-pervasive and has its effects on students who are not equipped to properly critique it. Heck, most Christian adults are not equipped to properly critique it. The Bible teaches that “all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge” are found in Jesus Christ, and that “the fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.” But public schools deny this truth all day, every day. This is the real problem, not the kid who is talking about the pot he smoked last night (though that is a problem).
5. If we took all of the Christian kids out of public schools, how would we reach the unsaved children who might otherwise have no link to the Christian world?
This question seems to leave out the great mass of church history. The gospel has been spreading quite well over the centuries without Christian children going to officially agnostic government run schools. I’m talking about giving children a distinctively Christian education, not cloistering them up in a monastery or the like. Frankly, if Christians starting developing schools where Jesus’ command to “love me with all your mind” was taken seriously, I think we’d start to see the impact very soon. Historically, Christians were the ones who were sought after in various vocations because they could be counted on to work harder and with more integrity than others. Sadly, this has changed due to the church, not because the culture has become “better” people. Even our Christians schools need a lot of work. Your question also assumes a kind of “two worlds” idea: The secular world and the “Christian” world. There’s only one world and it’s God’s world, and the sooner we teach and embody this reality, the sooner Jesus and the gospel will be seen by all as the Lord that he is. The task is complicated today because of our radical individualism, but Jesus was clear that “all people will know that you are my disciples if you have love for one another.” The call is for Christians to raise their children and educate them in a way that makes Jesus’ lordship clear. This will necessarily give God’s people many opportunities and venues in which to share the gospel.
6. No public school I've taught in has been officially agnostic. Rather, the whole topic usually gets the silent treatment because so many teachers fear losing their jobs if they discuss it. Perhaps that's a policy I've just never come across before. Was that just a personal observation or is it really "official"?
When I say that government schools are “officially agnostic,” I mean precisely what you’ve said, namely, God gets the silent treatment. I say it’s agnostic because the public school doesn’t take an official position for or against God’s existence and reality. But of course, the way it works out is “against.” I think I explained that earlier. Believe me, the ACLU and others are standing by to make sure that nothing positive about God’s existence gets talked about in public schools. So it’s official. You’ve pointed up the problem rather well. Public schools teach children that if they want to believe in God, that’s find for them, kind of like believing in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny. No one will stop you if you want to believe in them. But don’t try to bring it into the classroom as though it actually had anything to do with knowledge. It’s just your belief, right? And you should probably keep your beliefs to yourself and your church. So kids learn to privatize their faith, to wall it off and put it in a separate category. They don’t necessarily know they’re doing this, but they are. They’re being taught that spiritual knowledge is all relative, that is, unknowable, and that if they want to have “faith,” then they hope that does something good for them. But don’t possibly think that it is true for all people everywhere. How narrow-minded! You get it?
7. Should all Christian educators move to Christian schools so we aren't "stuck" in "officially" agnostic programs?
I’m not some kind of utopian, so I don’t think all Christians are going to abandon the public schools next week. But I’ll tell you this, if Christians finally decided that biblical wisdom required them to pull out of the public schools and give their children a Christian education, the public schools would have to shut down. It’s Christians who are keeping them open. We have the power to decide about these things. We’re not stuck. But we’ve got to do some better thinking.
8. I've never seen a free Christian school. How do Christian schools benefit students at or below the poverty line? Some of my kids have to skip meals. I can't imagine them paying to go to a private school.
Again, the church needs to decide that they’re serious about education. The real indicator to me that large swaths of the church don’t take the life of the mind (and heart) seriously is how little the church puts towards Christian education. Sure, we’ll spend hundreds of millions of dollars on church building programs, but where’s the line-item in the budget for scholarships to fund children’s educations. We’ll spend millions on dollars on Christian camps, but not Christian education. At my Christian school, we scholarship a lot of students who can’t afford our school. Even more significant is the issue of taxes. Give everyone back the taxes they have to pay to support government schools and we’ve got a different ballgame going, don’t we? There are ways to pay for it, but the church isn’t interested. That’s because our Christian children are on largely the same trajectory as the non-Christian ones. They aspire to the same things and the same standards of living and the same ideas about material progress and accumulation. And the public schools are their ticket to these goals.
I've worked in the public schools, and I'm not trying to rip on anybody who works in them. I have friends for whom I have tremendous respect who send their children to the public schools. I just want to wrestle with the issues and bring God's wisdom to bear upon them as best I can. I appreciate your questions, for this kind of discussion can only help all of us examine our unexamined assumptions and become more clear on the best way forward. Thanks again, and I hope this has been helpful.
Thanks for stopping by. I was hoping you would. Going through your blog is on a long "to do" list, but I promise to get there soon. I have clicked through a few pages, but I can't claim to have perused it thoroughly.
I would like to keep the conversation going, but unfortunately, I don't have the time to properly respond at the moment. I hope you'll return later in the week... or perhaps we could continue on a message board somewhere?
By the way, I hope you didn't take offense to "the commenter." I wasn't sure whether to call you Russel or Duenes! :-)
No problem, Josh. Also, no hurry on the reply. I'll visit again in the future. I'd like to check out your site some more; it looks intriguing. I appreciate your willingness to carry on the conversation. I'm happy to have it on your site. I've posted some stuff on education on my site in the past. By the way, I'm Michael Duenes.
Just wanted to drop a comment here and let folks know that I responded in a separate blog post:
http://www.crazyteachermusings.com/2009/10/christians-in-public-schools-part-ii.html
I hope we can continue the discussion.
RussellandDunes:
"Public schools foster, implicitly and explicitly, rebellion against authority, and portray parents and their beliefs as archaic."
Where do you get this information? I think that for you to make an accusation like that... you should be required to at least back it up with some evidence or reasoning for your belief. I think wide sweeping generalizations like that are the very reason Christians have lost influence in this country. I am not saying that we should tolerate everything, but please we can't make huge a-- hole generalized statements like that and expect any respect. And I know you many will think my "a-- hole" comment is worse... but I don't know what else to call my "Christian" friends who disrespect every teacher in America in a major generalization like that. Two of my best friends are current and past Christian School Administrators and I have tons of respect for them but I would put the Christians in the public school system up against the Christian school teachers any day. There are a ton serving in both places.
Your quote "...foster, implicitly and explicitly, rebellion.." was totally out of line and I had to stop reading there for a moment and reply. I will finish and may not be able to point out every "a-- hole" statement like I have this one just for time's sake, but as I fellow follower of Jesus Christ I would encourage you to re-think massive generalizations like that one.
Thanks,
Just Josh (the other Josh)
Russellandduenes:
"There’s only one world and it’s God’s world, and the sooner we teach and embody this reality, the sooner Jesus and the gospel will be seen by all as the Lord that he is."
I stop reading again... this time to quote something that I totally agree with. I am arguing that based on the above quote we should get more involved in the public arena and be highly influential in the public schools. As parents let's go with our children and represent Christ there! It isn't public school after all - it is God's world!
Russellandduenes:
Ok - I finished reading your reply now and realize that you didn't stick with the big generalized "jerk" stuff so I am kinda sorry that I pointed it out and referred to it so harshly. But I assume you see my point.
Anyway - in a more reasonable deliberation... if the whole "tax credit" thing did happen as you are asking for in the following quote - what would keep the government from trying to regulate what could and could not be taught there? Who could and could not be hired there? etc.
"Give everyone back the taxes they have to pay to support government schools and we’ve got a different ballgame going, don’t we?"
I am going to leave one more comment to this thread today and then get to work. But I am glad we are having this conversation.
Just Josh
My final thoughts....
I have friends who work in Christian schools and friends who work in public schools. I believe both are effective where they are.
I have friends who home school, some use the public school system, and some who pay for Christian education. I think each have their reasons for each choice.
I am very happy to live in a place where each family gets to choose. I think we should at least consider being highly involved in the public school system as followers of Jesus Christ.
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